Quite an interesting story here about new skills for job applicants in the trading world:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3723922.stm

And the subject of gambling and systems is also being covered in this week's Horizon programme on BBC2. The programme on Thursday 14 October 2004, 21:00-21:50 is:
Making Millions the Easy Way: When a brilliant scientist worked out a way to beat the odds on blackjack, a cat and mouse game began between teams of young whizzkids and the Las Vegas casinos.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog...on/index.shtml

Skim,

I also saw a trailer for this and had forgotten so thanks for reminding me as I think it will be of great interest.


Paul

Well spotted, thanks Skim.

I play a fair bit of online poker and am fairly sure that coping with swiftly changing probabilites in a disciplined manner has improved my trading, though I'm not sure how the bluffing element fits in (a parallel with big boys faking moves, perhaps?)

I'd be interested to know how many other members actively play the game. Perhaps we should set up a tournament in one of the well known online poker rooms!

I play poker online. I do find that making the most of the hands when you win and minimising the loses for the losing hands is similar to trading. Don't know if the top poker players would be good at trading but there are a few top players who used to trade the markets.

Some of the best bridge players in the world (including former world champions) are traders, options dealers, and this kind of thing.

does anyone know if there is the 1 card closed and 4 open type of poker ?

what is this variety called ?

wg,

This is called "Stud Poker" and you can get variations where more than 4 cards are face up.


Paul

Is that 5 card stud?

http://www.paradisepoker.com/game_info_stud5.html

rec'd this in my inbox this morning.......I guess a few of you are already aware of the book, but for those who haven't come across it, maybe something to add to the list


A review (not mine) posted at Amazon on 'Zen and The Art of Poker' by
Larry Phillips. I inserted a couple of notes, in brackets:

. . . From the perspective of a trader, I loved this book. I find it ironic but strangely fitting that one of the best books on trading psychology I have ever come across, turns out to be a flimsy little
throwaway paperback that was not written about trading at all. Poker and trading are strikingly similar disciplines. They are both one man endeavors; they are both zero sum games played for financial gain at the expense of opponents; they are both oriented towards luck in the short run but skill in the long run; they both require proficiency in the realm of probability and statistics; they both require a taste for risk and an aversion to risk in equal amounts; they both require an ability to read the emotions of others while controlling the emotions within yourself; and they both see profits consistently flow from the losing many to the winning few over time.
Because of these similarities, the skill sets of the poker player and the trader are in many ways interchangeable.

Of the 100 "rules" for poker presented in this book, I would say at least 80 of them have a direct and valuable application to trading (just mentally substitute "losing" [NB: or being "stopped out"] for folding, "markets" for cards, and so forth). Many of the rules overlap, or repeat a principle that was highlighted only a few pages back, but unless you are a nitpicker this does not take away from the book. Some of the unique observations truly shine: for example, I was
immediately struck by the concept of viewing inaction as a weapon, and intrigued by the nonstraining nature of patience (hint: if you are struggling, you are not doing it right).

I can't claim that this book taught me a lot of new things. Instead it clarified my vision of old things, which is truly far more valuable. I cannot stress enough how valuable it is to deepen your understanding of the principles that you think you already know, but in reality do not. Focusing on depth rather than breadth of knowledge is so central that it has been a constant underlying theme in my growth as a trader . . . and as a student of life in general.

A pet peeve I have with books on trading psychology, even the very best of them, is that the author usually cannot seem to resist giving his opinion on markets, methods or indicators somewhere, and this opinion usually turns out to be a mediocre distraction at best, or
useless and bad advice at worst (Mark Douglas comes to mind here -- his excellent books are slightly marred by this [NB: as are those of Alexander Elder]). Thus one of the reasons I rate this book so highly is because of, and not in spite of, the fact that it's about a different game than the one I play. The truth in the observations is given a fresh perspective automatically -- the trader is forced to creatively extract the principle, and thus think about its implications and application, rather than have it spoon-fed to him along with a dose of pap. Certain sections of this book, not to mention the full book itself, could literally make it worth 100 times the price to the beginning trader. If the lessons sink into your psyche, they could easily help shave a few thousand dollars off the cost of your "tuition" (the losses incurred from the time you begin to the time you achieve profitability, if ever). A few powerful sections that spring to mind
immediately are the ones on folding and inaction, the nature of patience, the interplay of skill and chance, the long run aspects of the game, and potential hidden motives for playing.

The most interesting aspect of the game is that it forces the player to deal with "tactical decisions dependent upon conditions of uncertainty". This is very important in trading. I have tutuored many aspirants in the past and found Poker players and Bridge players able to develop the required " edge " faster than anybody else. This faculty also applied I found to those with a military or quasi military background. And hats off too to my Chinese students ~ brilliant with mental arithmetic and really convoluted numerical sequences, risk evaluation,and instantaneous conditional reflexes, of the highest order.